Sunday 4 September 2011

1. David Rose On Stratification & Metaredundancy

David Rose firstly writes in response to my comments on Jim Martin On Stratification:
contextual strata are metaredundant on the redundant relation between discourse semantics and lexicogrammar... hence relating clause meanings directly to context skips a layer of metaredundancy





Blogger Comments:

(1) clause meanings

The meanings of clauses are semantic not lexicogrammatical. Hence relating clause meanings directly to context does not skip a stratum.


(2) layer of metaredundancy

Strata are not layers of metaredundancy. Metaredundancy is a redundancy on a redundancy. Semantics is metaredundant on the redundant relation between lexicogrammar and phonology. Semantics, lexicogrammar and phonology are not "layers of metaredundancy".

2. David Rose On Realisation

David Rose secondly writes in response to my comments on Jim Martin on Stratification:
clause meanings are realised by system-structure relations cycling through grammatical ranks i.e. meanings are realised by relations between elements of structures in texts, instantiating relations between features in systems, at each rank within phonology, grammar and discourse... (no need to do it twice)



Blogger Comments:

(1) clause meanings are realised by system-structure relations; meanings are realised by relations between elements of structures

This confuses the distinction between stratification and axis. In terms of stratification, meanings (semantics) are realised by wordings (lexicogrammar) — whatever the axis (paradigmatic or syntagmatic). In terms of axis, (paradigmatic) systems are realised by (syntagmatic) structures — whatever the stratum.


(2) meanings are realised by relations between elements of structures in texts

'In texts' refers only to the instance pole of the cline of instantiation. The realisation of meaning (semantics) in wording (lexicogrammar) applies to the whole cline, not just the instance. Hence: "stuck in the instance".

3. David Rose On Instantiation

David Rose thirdly writes in response to my comments on Jim Martin on Stratification:
discourse semantic systems are the potential for co-textualising grammatical meanings, instantiated as discourse semantic structures in text





Blogger Comment:

Instantiation is the relation of the system to the instance (of the system). The relation between system and structure — and between semantics and lexicogrammar — is realisation.

4. David Rose On Instantiation

David Rose writes, in response to my comments on 3. David Rose On Instantiation:
All true but doesn't falsify DR's statement. How else are systems instantiated other than as structures in texts? DR's statement corrected CC's claim that "Co-textualised" meanings are only at the instance pole of the cline of instantiation — in text




My Comments:

[1] This confuses the cline of instantiation with the realisation relation between the paradigmatic and syntagmatic axes. The theoretical dimension of instantiation is the (intensive attributive) relation between the system and the instance (of the system). The relation between the paradigmatic axis (systems) and the syntagmatic axis (structures) is realisation (an intensive identifying relation).

Put simply: a structure is not an instance of a system.


[2] By definition, "co-textualised" meanings are meanings of the text. The text is at the instance pole of the cline of instantiation.

5. David Rose On Meaning

David Rose writes in response to my comments on 2. David Rose On Realisation:
Again this reduction does not falsify DR's statement. SFL is a relational theory of meaning, in which meanings are realised by the whole set of relations in language, including stratal, axial and rank, which DR's statement distilled and explicated. Meaning making is not reducible to a one-dimensional relation between strata.



Blogger Comments:

(1) Again this reduction does not falsify DR's statement.

A distinction — in this case between stratification and axis — is not a reduction.


(2) meanings are realised by the whole set of relations in language, including stratal, axial and rank

The use of 'meaning' here ignores theoretical distinctions. Meanings are realised by wordings (stratification); systems are realised by structures (axis); the functional elements of a higher rank are realised by units of the rank below.


(3) which DR's statement distilled and explicated

Ignoring theoretical distinctions is neither distillation nor explication.


(4) Meaning making is not reducible to a one-dimensional relation between strata.

The original post was about the realisation of meaning, not meaning making. The realisation of meaning is a stratal relation between semantics and lexicogrammar (the axial relation of realisation on the semantic stratum is between system and structure).


(5) Meaning making is not reducible to a one-dimensional relation between strata.

That claim was not made. This is the logical fallacy known as 'The Straw Man'.

6. David Rose On The Cline Of Instantiation

David Rose writes in response to my comments on 2. David Rose On Realisation
Yes, and 'relations between features in systems' refers to the system pole of the cline. Relations between elements of structure are dimensions of meaning making in SFL theory, whether viewed from structural potentials realising features in systems or actual structures instantiated in texts



Blogger Comments:

[1] This misunderstands the cline of instantiation. The cline of instantiation is (an intensive attributive) relation between the system and instances (of the system). There are no (syntagmatic) "relations between elements of structure" at the (paradigmatic) system pole of the cline of instantiation.

[2] This misunderstands the cline of instantiation and merges it with (axial) realisation. The cline of instantiation is (an intensive attributive) relation between the system and instances (of the system). "Actual structures" are not instances of a system. The relation between system and structure is realisation (an intensive identifying relation).

7. David Rose On Stratification

The meanings of clauses are made by lexicogrammatical systems/structures. They do not include meanings made by discourse semantic systems/structures, which co-textualise (redound on) these lexicogrammatical meanings. Hence relating clause meanings directly to context skips a layer of (OK) redundancy.


Blogger Comments:

(1) The meanings of clauses are made by lexicogrammatical systems/structures.

This misunderstands stratification. The relation between meaning (semantic stratum) and wording (lexicogrammatical stratum) is realisation — an intensive identifying process, not a creative abstract material process ('made by'). Wording (eg clauses) realises meaning.


(2) They do not include meanings made by discourse semantic systems/structures, which co-textualise (redound on) these lexicogrammatical meanings. Hence relating clause meanings directly to context skips a layer of (OK) redundancy.

This misunderstands stratification. Meaning is the level of symbolic abstraction modelled as the semantic stratum. The meanings realised by wordings — including wordings such as those of clause rank and of cohesion — are at the semantic level of symbolic abstraction. No stratum is "skipped".